Presidential Debate

I'm sorry but these things are nothing but bullshit by both sides. I think the presidential debate is useless now a days nothing but lies and more lies to just pass the day up. I'm sure a lot of you are gonna strongly disagree but it's just my opinion that the presidential debates are nothing but lies now. I'm not bringing this up to piss anyone off or to be an asshole i'm just getting frustrated watching these things now. Just a place for people to vent about this if you disagree I dont take it the wrong way I like voicing opinions and I dont mind people trying to persuade me one way.

TheTrueJ0KER wrote:

I'm sorry but these things are nothing but bullshit by both sides. I think the presidential debate is useless now a days nothing but lies and more lies to just pass the day up. I'm sure a lot of you are gonna strongly disagree but it's just my opinion that the presidential debates are nothing but lies now. I'm not bringing this up to piss anyone off or to be an asshole i'm just getting frustrated watching these things now. Just a place for people to vent about this if you disagree I dont take it the wrong way I like voicing opinions and I dont mind people trying to persuade me one way.

I love Barack Obama so much and I trust him 200% with the safety and future of our country, so I disagree with you about the lies part, but I do get where you are coming from. The debates to me are a front, and a waste of time, as far as accomplishing anything in the world. I think that they are just in place for the self-absorbed politicians and voters. For me, anyway, they don't seem to have any importance, and though it is a platform for both Obama and McCain to speak their views, it is a pretty crappy platform at that. It just seems like they only debate the same old politics; the economic crisis, and foreign affairs. And within those two subjects, both politicians tend to repeat their stances over and over again. However, a majority of voters will be people who do regard the debates, however meaningless they may be, so from that standpoint they are a neccassary evil. Some of you may not agree with me on this, but I think if Barack Obama declined these debates it would be an excuse for people to say he's hiding, so in turn he's forced to endure the same old questions. It's almost like there's a right of passage to become president, and if you don't follow each and every step, people will start to crucify you.
The one thing that is really good about the debates, though, is that it gets people an oppurtunity to see the two politicians side by side, which is a good way for people who don't really follow either candidate to see them both on the same stage, at the same time. I think when their together, it creates an even stronger distinction between the two, and really makes people realize that Barack Obama is the real deal. An example of that tonight is when John McCain made a comment of how Barack Obama has a plan in place to start taxing all of the small businesses in America, and instead of Barack Obama shying away from this, he leaned in towards McCain with a smile as if he was saying "Ooh, I can't wait to set his wrinkly old ass straight", which was really incredible to me, because when Barack finally replied he said that his tax plan on small businesses would create a tax cut for 98% of all small businesses, and would create a tax increase on average of 700,000$ for every CEO in America making a lucrative salary. That to me is incredible, because it shows that Barack really does know every bit of what he preaches, and he leaves absolutely no margin for anyone to say he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.
I know that the debates can seem boring for many people, and I know that you personally may not trust anything that either candidate says, but just that you are willing to discuss it is very important. You have every right to think that they are just trying to get a leg up on the other person by making false promises, but I hope when it comes time to vote you are their casting your ballot, for whoever that may be.

I do not trust this statement much. I don't know about this taxing plan at all, but that statement seems like it was said to win voters, a popular subject that anyone can get behind. Lets see him do it, I would be willing to bet some of those companies and CEOs donate a bit of money to his campaign, and I don't see anyone in politics say no to money.

[quote="x Ricky87 x"]I think when their together, it creates an even stronger distinction between the two, and really makes people realize that Barack Obama is the real deal. An example of that tonight is when John McCain made a comment of how Barack Obama has a plan in place to start taxing all of the small businesses in America, and instead of Barack Obama shying away from this, he leaned in towards McCain with a smile as if he was saying "Ooh, I can't wait to set his wrinkly old ass straight", which was really incredible to me, because when Barack finally replied he said that his tax plan on small businesses would create a tax cut for 98% of all small businesses, and would create a tax increase on average of 700,000$ for every CEO in America making a lucrative salary. That to me is incredible, because it shows that Barack really does know every bit of what he preaches, and he leaves absolutely no margin for anyone to say he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.
quote]

This is why I FUCKING hate debates, You guys may call me a moron but I really liked Mccain's debate last night. However I fucking HATE president BUSH, I just never know who to trust in these damn things but I thought Mccain came off very strong in my opinion.

Also I thought it was hilarious how Mccain was talking about Obamas tax raising and when Obama wanted to respond and Browhaf was like you cant we only get the minute as you guys requested Obama sat down like he was gonna knock him out haha but then he just responded on the next question which was good to hear and a great answer as well.

Barack Obama is always very upfront about what he will not be able to do in his first term as president, so thats why I believe him from the bottom of my heart when he says that he will do something. I know it sounds to good to be true, to give 95% of all Americans tax reductions, but I think he will be true to his word. I mean, think of all the profits that big businesses get along with government tax breaks. John McCain is stuck under the dillusion that giving CEO's even more tax cuts will give them more flexibility for creating jobs, but it's not like the lack of jobs in America is due to big businesses not having the cash to increase their payroll. The reason their is such an economic crisis in America, is because a large percentage of all of the money in America is sitting in the wallets of a very small percentage of Americans, and those rich businesses don't care about the job crisis in America. As long as the monopoly that is currently in place still exists, the rich will have no desire for change. They'll have all the cash they need to buy their private jet's, and Ferrari's, and million dollar houses, and as long as their is no structure in place to prevent this corrupted distribution of wealth, it will not change.
If you want proof that Barack Obama is good to his word, then just watch the reactions of Bill O'Reilly on Fox News when Obama was on his program. You can find it on youtube.com, and you can see that O'Reilly speaks for many rich Americans who have this ignorant idea that they deserve their millions. Rich people certainly believe that Barack Obama is serious when he says he'll start taxing the rich, and relieving taxes on the middle classes, because they know he will do it. Just look at McCains supporters. Their all rich people, old people, or war veterans. Their is very few minorities, and very few middle class citizens who trust McCain. Also, I can never trust McCain when he blinks so damn much while he's fielding questions. He's just in it to "woo" people over, and thats why he abuses the term "my friends" so much. He's just trying to lull people into a false sense of security. All I know is that McCain is only one stroke away from not being able to wipe his own ass, and the second he does Sarah Palin will become the "Interim President", so to speak. That scares me, because even though some people may think Sarah Palin is a straight talker, at her core she knows little to nothing about how to run a country. It's funny, she even said a way to help the spending crisis for the middle class is to limit your children to 1 credit card. That just about says it all.
Still, I know this a bit lengthy again, but I just think that this is the most important presidential race in American history, and if Obama doesn't win, which he inevitably should, we will be subject to another 4 years of idiocy and poverty. I'm not trying to convert anybody to Obama, and I hope I didn't deter any of you away from him. All I can say is that if you vote for Obama, you will be doing one of the greatest things you could ever do for your country. Even more than going to war, because fighting for your country starts with voting. War is just the effect of people not voting correctly!.

Wow Ricky, that was a very mature and well thought out post. I do not know who I am voting for, I am on the fence so to speak, but I don't think I trust Palin at all. I don't agree or trust Obama either though, tough choice. Lesser of two evils again.

I'm not voting for a republican. It'll end up being another 4 years of what we have now...and God forbid, If McCain croaks or cant continue because of a health issue, well theres only one woman I trust to lead the nation. And its not Palin.

I still think Mccain will win, he will get I believe the majority of the big votes (the ones that really count) Obama will do great with the people but I really dont believe our votes count as much as people think they do.

Agreed.

TheTrueJ0KER wrote:

I still think Mccain will win, he will get I believe the majority of the big votes (the ones that really count) Obama will do great with the people but I really dont believe our votes count as much as people think they do.

I'm not trying to be pushy by any means, but I don't think McCain stands a chance. If by the "Big Votes" your refering to the delegates, Obama's got a projected 260+ on the race to 270, whereas McCain has about a projected 160. Also, I think that our votes do count. Especially when youth votes will be higher than they have ever been, which I don't think anybody will truly get the full scope of until November. I just think that people create a false importance on delegates, so that people feel like their votes don't mean much, when in fact they are of extreme importance. To me, delegate votes are just a ploy to make people feel insignificant. That tactic may have worked for George W. Bush, but that's just because people weren't very adimant about voting for Al Gore or John Kerry in the first place. Barack Obama is a different story, because people will make sure they cast their ballots for him, and I think it could end up being a landslide.
Propaganda is the leading cause of dislike for Obama, in my opinion, and a majority of people who only get their Obama news from bits and pieces won't be the people rushing to vote anyways. Voting is more for people who have a vested, or even partial interest, in change, and Obama leads that cause with extreme conviction. Again, you are more than entitled to your opinion, but I do believe McCains days in the lime-light are numbered. I don't think that many people are willing to even pay 10$ in gas to go vote for McCain, and his repetitiveness will surely be the end of him.
For those of you who do not like Obama, please give him a chance. I know some of you may think he is un-trustworthy, but his heart is with the people and not with his own search for power. His history shows who he's fighting for, and that is the average person. Not alot of people know this, but before he even ran for Mayor of Chicago, he was going door to door trying to register voters, and he ended up registering over 100,000 minority voters in the Chicago area alone, and this was before his name was even on the ballot. He truly cares, unlike Bush and McCain who only want to appear as though they do. Trust me, if you vote for Obama you will see positive change. I swear it!.
I'm not someone who follows politics from an elitist stand-point by any means, but I do think I am a good judge of character, regardless. I know when someone is being truthful, and when someone is only out for themselves, and Barack Obama is the epitomy of truth. Maybe he won't be able to do everything he says he will, because only time will tell what hand he is given, but if their is anyone who would give their life up to create change in the world, it is Barack Obama. He's seen the bottom, and now he's on top, so he knows what he's here to do. He's one of those special people who was put on this earth to create peace, and their are only a handful of people throughout history that I would say that about. To some people this may sound like the overstatement of the century, but I would not say it unless I truly believed it, so in closing...VOTE OBAMA DAMN IT, OR HAVE OLD ASS McCAIN HAVE US ALL BLOWN TO SHIT!!!

I'll be in line to vote dont get me wrong, My belief is that Mccain will win no matter who I vote on (still up in the air) I just have never believed that our (the peoples) vote make a huge difference in the campaign. Also I have a feeling that we are gonna invade Iran before any new president is announced anyway which is bothersome to me. It'll be Bush's big last fuck up before he leaves.

TheTrueJ0KER wrote:

This is why I FUCKING hate debates, You guys may call me a moron but I really liked Mccain's debate last night. However I fucking HATE president BUSH, I just never know who to trust in these damn things but I thought Mccain came off very strong in my opinion.

Also I thought it was hilarious how Mccain was talking about Obamas tax raising and when Obama wanted to respond and Browhaf was like you cant we only get the minute as you guys requested Obama sat down like he was gonna knock him out haha but then he just responded on the next question which was good to hear and a great answer as well.

McCain came off strong you state. What was the substance of his debate/campaign? He claims he will find and kill Osama. He knows how and will do so. Hmmm, why hasn't he shared that with the rest of the US military forces and Bush?

Bottom-line, McCain provides zero substance for his so called plan. He makes broad statements without providing any foundation. His straight talk is a ploy to make u and I believe he is the great war hero and will do just for our country. He is a coward and a huge cover up!!! Read the below article. Now this is real and no BS:


McCain May not be the hero we think he is!!!

Before you go vote for John McCain read the link I have attached. This link tells what Vietnam Veterans think of John McCain.. America say John McCain was a Hero, I don't think so he was flying in an area he should not have been. John McCain crashed 4 Jets. On the fifth Jet, his jet was hit be accident 138 Sailors and Marines were killed, John McCain ran and didn't help no one. John McCain, gave Top Secret information to the enemy. Several pilots because John McCain giving the enemy Top Secret Information / flight plan were shot down. When the Navy and Air force flew over this area the enemy was waiting and were shot down because of John McCain. When the enemy found out that John McCain was the son of an Admiral he was placed in the Hilton hotel and treated like royalty. John McCain, was so ashamed of what he did he did not want to go to the rear. John McCain a hero I don't think so. As a prior service soldier it is drilled in your head you don't leave your fel low soldiers even if it calls for loss of life. John McCain received 28 medal for 20 hours of flight time. There were soldiers who spent hundreds of hours in combat trying to stay alive everyday and received no award. John McCain a hero I don't think so. Even when he could save a life he ran to save his self. Click on the link for more detail or copy and paste the link in your browser address and hit enter.



http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm

donfigures wrote:

TheTrueJ0KER wrote:

This is why I FUCKING hate debates, You guys may call me a moron but I really liked Mccain's debate last night. However I fucking HATE president BUSH, I just never know who to trust in these damn things but I thought Mccain came off very strong in my opinion.

Also I thought it was hilarious how Mccain was talking about Obamas tax raising and when Obama wanted to respond and Browhaf was like you cant we only get the minute as you guys requested Obama sat down like he was gonna knock him out haha but then he just responded on the next question which was good to hear and a great answer as well.

McCain came off strong you state. What was the substance of his debate/campaign? He claims he will find and kill Osama. He knows how and will do so. Hmmm, why hasn't he shared that with the rest of the US military forces and Bush?

Bottom-line, McCain provides zero substance for his so called plan. He makes broad statements without providing any foundation. His straight talk is a ploy to make u and I believe he is the great war hero and will do just for our country. He is a coward and a huge cover up!!! Read the below article. Now this is real and no BS:


McCain May not be the hero we think he is!!!

Before you go vote for John McCain read the link I have attached. This link tells what Vietnam Veterans think of John McCain.. America say John McCain was a Hero, I don't think so he was flying in an area he should not have been. John McCain crashed 4 Jets. On the fifth Jet, his jet was hit be accident 138 Sailors and Marines were killed, John McCain ran and didn't help no one. John McCain, gave Top Secret information to the enemy. Several pilots because John McCain giving the enemy Top Secret Information / flight plan were shot down. When the Navy and Air force flew over this area the enemy was waiting and were shot down because of John McCain. When the enemy found out that John McCain was the son of an Admiral he was placed in the Hilton hotel and treated like royalty. John McCain, was so ashamed of what he did he did not want to go to the rear. John McCain a hero I don't think so. As a prior service soldier it is drilled in your head you don't leave your fel low soldiers even if it calls for loss of life. John McCain received 28 medal for 20 hours of flight time. There were soldiers who spent hundreds of hours in combat trying to stay alive everyday and received no award. John McCain a hero I don't think so. Even when he could save a life he ran to save his self. Click on the link for more detail or copy and paste the link in your browser address and hit enter.



http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm

THATS WHY HE BLINKS SO DAMN MUCH!!!. I knew it...he's a fraud!. Thank you very much for posting that. I really appreciate your research, and now I'm convinced the man has been conditioned to tell lies. So much for being a hero. That's why we can't put faith in someone just cause they went to war. It creates a false idea of what their motives for going were in the first place. Don't get me wrong, anyone and everyone who is in Iraq or Afghanistan fighting honestly for our freedom is nothing less than a hero, but this is a war that we should never have fought to begin with. If you truly care about freedom and equality you will do the right thing and vote for Barack Obama. I know this sounds pushy, but it is the truth. We can't afford to have John McCain running this country. No way, No how!. Don't mistake this new bit of info as the tipping point either, because I didn't trust McCain regardless. He takes way too much satisfaction from the thought of power, and he cannot be trusted. He blinks so much for a reason, and that's because he's aware of his own desire. I'm not trying to go on a random tangent of people who blink alot, but he only blinks when he's fielding quesions, and that to me is very un-nerving. I have a new slogan, and that's "Obama's eyes hide no lies". He tells the truth in the face of conviction, and he will be the only person who can lead this country in the right direction. VOTE OBAMA...Not because I said so, but because it's the right thing to do. Even if I'm doing a horrible job trying to inform you, just ignore me, because you DO have the power to create change, regardless of what you think of the common vote!.

If any of you guys think either one of these clowns are going to do any of the things they say you are misguided.
McCain - living in the past. Probably the best of the two for the job, but he's still not the right man for the job. He will continue to give big oil and big businees all the breaks, but he will make sure our country is protected and safe. If McCain were 20 years younger I'd vote for him.
Obama - great speaker but full of nothing but hot air. everytime I hear this clown talk I realize he doesn't have a clue how to run a country, and I pray he does not get elected. This guy will weaken America and open us up for a huge disaster in the future. I won't be voting for either of them

donfigures wrote:

TheTrueJ0KER wrote:

This is why I FUCKING hate debates, You guys may call me a moron but I really liked Mccain's debate last night. However I fucking HATE president BUSH, I just never know who to trust in these damn things but I thought Mccain came off very strong in my opinion.

Also I thought it was hilarious how Mccain was talking about Obamas tax raising and when Obama wanted to respond and Browhaf was like you cant we only get the minute as you guys requested Obama sat down like he was gonna knock him out haha but then he just responded on the next question which was good to hear and a great answer as well.

McCain came off strong you state. What was the substance of his debate/campaign? He claims he will find and kill Osama. He knows how and will do so. Hmmm, why hasn't he shared that with the rest of the US military forces and Bush?

Bottom-line, McCain provides zero substance for his so called plan. He makes broad statements without providing any foundation. His straight talk is a ploy to make u and I believe he is the great war hero and will do just for our country. He is a coward and a huge cover up!!! Read the below article. Now this is real and no BS:


McCain May not be the hero we think he is!!!

Before you go vote for John McCain read the link I have attached. This link tells what Vietnam Veterans think of John McCain.. America say John McCain was a Hero, I don't think so he was flying in an area he should not have been. John McCain crashed 4 Jets. On the fifth Jet, his jet was hit be accident 138 Sailors and Marines were killed, John McCain ran and didn't help no one. John McCain, gave Top Secret information to the enemy. Several pilots because John McCain giving the enemy Top Secret Information / flight plan were shot down. When the Navy and Air force flew over this area the enemy was waiting and were shot down because of John McCain. When the enemy found out that John McCain was the son of an Admiral he was placed in the Hilton hotel and treated like royalty. John McCain, was so ashamed of what he did he did not want to go to the rear. John McCain a hero I don't think so. As a prior service soldier it is drilled in your head you don't leave your fel low soldiers even if it calls for loss of life. John McCain received 28 medal for 20 hours of flight time. There were soldiers who spent hundreds of hours in combat trying to stay alive everyday and received no award. John McCain a hero I don't think so. Even when he could save a life he ran to save his self. Click on the link for more detail or copy and paste the link in your browser address and hit enter.



http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm

Just to be fair there are just as many web sites claiming to know all about Obama as there are for McCain. Anyone can create a web site and put whatever they want on it. Read this and then tell me how well you will sleep at night once if elected Obama cuts our military and defenses back and leaves us open for a major attack. Oh yeah I forgot, he's going to have a talk with all the terrorists that hate America and want to see us all dead, so then they will just forget about us and go about their business.
http://douglasvgibbs.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/why-obama-is-bad-for-america/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

PaulZweber wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4fe9GlWS8

He did pretty good reading a script. He might have a future in politics

The war was/is a mistake. Our WAR TIME pres. G. W. Bush put us in action for one simple reason!! BLACK GOLD! First he needed an excuse,9/11. Then he associated this act of terror with Iraq. Then with a lot of illusions he got most Americans to simply forget about Osama and focus on Iraq and our Act on World Terror. hmmmmm, Weapons of Mass Destruction? Yes the War was a mistake, because we are at war for all the wrong reasons. Obama is not disrepecting the soldiers and lives that have been lost. He is simply stating we should not have gone to war, it was a mistake. That speech by the young man standing by the flag (are we suppose to get teary eyed and feel what he is saying?) is a play on words. It was a mistake he recorded that crap and he will see that later on down the line.

Now, with that said, that silly azzz speech needs to be directed at G.W. Bush who thought it was ok to sacrifice our young lives for greed!!

I know the feeling of a few folks who are in service over there now. My brother in law (May he rest in peace) and a few other friends of his, do not/did not share the same feelings as what is being displayed by the Political lies presented by Bush driven Media. They are not on board with what is going on and never have been.

Check out the HBO or Showtime special "Profitting off the War" You will know what the soldiers really think.

War for peace and bringing freedom to Iraq. hahahahahahahahahh! Black Gold baby, Black Gold!!

NPYYZ wrote:

donfigures wrote:

TheTrueJ0KER wrote:

This is why I FUCKING hate debates, You guys may call me a moron but I really liked Mccain's debate last night. However I fucking HATE president BUSH, I just never know who to trust in these damn things but I thought Mccain came off very strong in my opinion.

Also I thought it was hilarious how Mccain was talking about Obamas tax raising and when Obama wanted to respond and Browhaf was like you cant we only get the minute as you guys requested Obama sat down like he was gonna knock him out haha but then he just responded on the next question which was good to hear and a great answer as well.

McCain came off strong you state. What was the substance of his debate/campaign? He claims he will find and kill Osama. He knows how and will do so. Hmmm, why hasn't he shared that with the rest of the US military forces and Bush?

Bottom-line, McCain provides zero substance for his so called plan. He makes broad statements without providing any foundation. His straight talk is a ploy to make u and I believe he is the great war hero and will do just for our country. He is a coward and a huge cover up!!! Read the below article. Now this is real and no BS:


McCain May not be the hero we think he is!!!

Before you go vote for John McCain read the link I have attached. This link tells what Vietnam Veterans think of John McCain.. America say John McCain was a Hero, I don't think so he was flying in an area he should not have been. John McCain crashed 4 Jets. On the fifth Jet, his jet was hit be accident 138 Sailors and Marines were killed, John McCain ran and didn't help no one. John McCain, gave Top Secret information to the enemy. Several pilots because John McCain giving the enemy Top Secret Information / flight plan were shot down. When the Navy and Air force flew over this area the enemy was waiting and were shot down because of John McCain. When the enemy found out that John McCain was the son of an Admiral he was placed in the Hilton hotel and treated like royalty. John McCain, was so ashamed of what he did he did not want to go to the rear. John McCain a hero I don't think so. As a prior service soldier it is drilled in your head you don't leave your fel low soldiers even if it calls for loss of life. John McCain received 28 medal for 20 hours of flight time. There were soldiers who spent hundreds of hours in combat trying to stay alive everyday and received no award. John McCain a hero I don't think so. Even when he could save a life he ran to save his self. Click on the link for more detail or copy and paste the link in your browser address and hit enter.



http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_lost_five_u.htm

Just to be fair there are just as many web sites claiming to know all about Obama as there are for McCain. Anyone can create a web site and put whatever they want on it. Read this and then tell me how well you will sleep at night once if elected Obama cuts our military and defenses back and leaves us open for a major attack. Oh yeah I forgot, he's going to have a talk with all the terrorists that hate America and want to see us all dead, so then they will just forget about us and go about their business.
http://douglasvgibbs.wordpress.com/2008/05/29/why-obama-is-bad-for-america/

The article you presented is basically the writers opinion bouced off of the same opinions talked about by McCain supports. What I forwarded is FACT. McCain is not a war hero!

You can't claim the website you posted as fact, and the website he posted as lies. It doesn't work that way. These peoples jobs is to badtalk the other canidates. Neither person is perfect, or the person we percieve them to be. The debates and commercials and ads and media is all to attack the other while making yourself look good, these people are salesmen at the highest level.

To say that troops don't support the war, why do people still join? We aren't in a draft. By joining the armed forces you are loudly voicing your support to go overseas. I make an personal choice every day not to join the army, I know I would be shipped off if I did. Someone who joins knows this, and if they still join they support the war. I despise Bush, think he has been horrible and he is a moron, but I support all of our troops out there. To say the war was a mistake is a slap in the face to my stepbrother, who lost his hearing, to my high school friend who came back home and is never going to be the same, or all the people that we know who have died serving their country. My father, grandfathers, great grandfathers, and great grandmother have all gone overseas, have all fought for this country. Was fighting Nazi Germany a mistake? What did we do when Pearl Harbor was bombed?

I do not like it when people say sending our troops over was a mistake, or still is. Those troops knew they were going over, where they making a mistake by joining our forces?

PaulZweber wrote:

You can't claim the website you posted as fact, and the website he posted as lies. It doesn't work that way. These peoples jobs is to badtalk the other canidates. Neither person is perfect, or the person we percieve them to be. The debates and commercials and ads and media is all to attack the other while making yourself look good, these people are salesmen at the highest level.

To say that troops don't support the war, why do people still join? We aren't in a draft. By joining the armed forces you are loudly voicing your support to go overseas. I make an personal choice every day not to join the army, I know I would be shipped off if I did. Someone who joins knows this, and if they still join they support the war. I despise Bush, think he has been horrible and he is a moron, but I support all of our troops out there. To say the war was a mistake is a slap in the face to my stepbrother, who lost his hearing, to my high school friend who came back home and is never going to be the same, or all the people that we know who have died serving their country. My father, grandfathers, great grandfathers, and great grandmother have all gone overseas, have all fought for this country. Was fighting Nazi Germany a mistake? What did we do when Pearl Harbor was bombed?

I do not like it when people say sending our troops over was a mistake, or still is. Those troops knew they were going over, where they making a mistake by joining our forces?

Not sure if you read my post, but saying the war is a mistake is not a slap in the face to the troops. It is a mistake for us going to war. That has nothing to do with our present troops who are currently at war. This mistake is directly pointed at Bush. That is who has smacked our troops in the face. He is careless and greed driven. Obama gives big praise to our troops and what they are doing.

My whole family is military folks. They didn't join to go to war, they joined to take advantage of what the military offered/offers. Yes, the potential is there, but that was not and in most cases folks main objective. My father, Uncles, where serving during Nam. Was that a successful campaign for freedom or a mistake in judgement?? Yes the troops were honored (where they really), but should be have gone to war?? What did we gain??

One of my big points is that EVERY person joining the military in the last few years is showing support for the war, weather they realize it or not. Knowing that you will be shipped off, and still joining, shows that you agree. To me, there is no possible way that if you join the military tomorrow, you would not support our troops being overseas, because you are going to join them. Every person that joins right now knows the possibility of death is there, but they take the risk to defend and support our country.

PaulZweber wrote:

One of my big points is that EVERY person joining the military in the last few years is showing support for the war, weather they realize it or not. Knowing that you will be shipped off, and still joining, shows that you agree. To me, there is no possible way that if you join the military tomorrow, you would not support our troops being overseas, because you are going to join them. Every person that joins right now knows the possibility of death is there, but they take the risk to defend and support our country.

I understand your point, but supporting the war is different from the reason why we went to the war is a mistake. Before we went to war did you support the idea of going to war in Iraq?

Yes, I am not going to lie, I wanted to see the terrorists die.

Now that isn't the reason we are there, I still don't agree with pulling out or quiting at this point.

PaulZweber wrote:

Yes, I am not going to lie, I wanted to see the terrorists die.

Now that isn't the reason we are there, I still don't agree with pulling out or quiting at this point.

Now that you know that our reason for being there is not what was originally told, was going to war in Iraq a mistake?


Obama is not talking about quiting. He is pushing for the safe return of our troops home to take care of their own families. He is also talking about letting the Iraq folks govern their own with our support (not in military terms with troops in place).

Look champ, we are spending major money (your money) to reform a country who at this stage does not want us present.

By the way Paul, good convo/debate.


Healthly convo/debate keeps the mind sharp and allows better understanding of your fellow man.

Good deal!