Presidential Debate

I don't agree with returning our troops, I think we should stick out what we started, reguardless of the intentions going in. If we don't spend my money on this, it will be spent on something else. They weren't doing that great a job governing themselves in the first place, it wasn't our place to step in in the first place but I don't think we can leave now. If my money wasn't being spent on this I don't think it would be spent on fighting crime, homelessnes, welfare, healthcare, dshs problems anyways. My money wouldn't go to helping low income families purchase low interest houses, or recovering our economy, or helping out people who were overlent money and are now bankrupt. My money gets spent on state and county workers that spend years fixing roads and bridges, standing on the side of a road holding a flag and cig.

Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone can say now that it was a mistake going to war, but were your emotions held in check 7 years ago?

I know I sound like a Bush supporter or like I have a strong stand, but the reality is that I have wanted a change the last 4 years, I just am not sure who the best person would be for bringing on this change. I am enjoying hearing your opinion and it just helps me form mine.

I just want to say I know politics can become a heated discussion very easily, so anything I say is not meant to be offensive, I am here for the sake of increasing knowledge and debate.

donfigures wrote:

PaulZweber wrote:

Yes, I am not going to lie, I wanted to see the terrorists die.

Now that isn't the reason we are there, I still don't agree with pulling out or quiting at this point.

Now that you know that our reason for being there is not what was originally told, was going to war in Iraq a mistake?


Obama is not talking about quiting. He is pushing for the safe return of our troops home to take care of their own families. He is also talking about letting the Iraq folks govern their own with our support (not in military terms with troops in place).

Look champ, we are spending major money (your money) to reform a country who at this stage does not want us present.

I just watched that youtube link, I must have missed it earlier. I think that is propaganda at it's finest, and a cheap way to try to pull heart strings. Calling it disrespectful to say the war was/is a mistake, is strictly the opinion of one person justifying their decision to enlist, and standing behind a bad decision by the president so he does'nt look like a puppet that went to war for no reason.
Going to war was a terrible decision, and for that guy to defend it with some ridiculous notion that we waged war to create democracy in Iraq is bogus. We went to war because of Bush's hidden agenda, and I guarantee you he doesn't give a flaming fu*k about democracy in Iraq. It's just an excuse to hide the fact that it was a bad decision.
I have respect for all people that give/risk their lives to defend a belief that they find is doing good for society, but I don't feel all of our troops should be treated as some revolutionaries fighting for good, so long as innocent Iraqi's are being tortured and killed. I've heard many stories of how soldiers blast rock and roll, and chant about killing before they go to war to pump themselves up. Now their goal should not be to kill, and get pumped up.
I watched a documentary about a group of soldiers complaining how bored they were, and how they wished there was more action. They were detaining innocent people, throwing them in the back of a truck and drove for hours to process them, because they were looking for one person of interest believed to be in the area. They took anyone over 15, and some were fathers they took at gunpoint infront of their children, forced them to their knees, and physically tossed them into the back of a truck. It turned out they were miles off target and released everybody, they felt no sorrow for doing that to innocent people, and were angry they were'nt able to "kill any bad guys".
I can't support the war, and I can't even support our troops as a whole. I really don't care what type of backlash this gets, because I know that the screening proccess is not srict enough to say that all of our troops are good people. I was playing Halo with some kids in Iraq that were troops, and they talked about shooting people's heads off in the game, and had no sense of maturity, especially to make the decision who lives and dies.
Not to mention the 10billion$ a month that we waste just to blow things up, and rebuild them, taking credit for somehow building up their countries democracy. It's a shame to even pretend we're doing good, when we don't have anybody stopping the genicide in Darfur, and it took forever to help Katrina victims. We're not specialized to help, we're trained to kill, and that's about it. We could afford so much food, shelter, and medicine for the price of tanks, missiles, and machine guns.
If I was sent to war I would probably try to defend going as well, because noone wants to die or be mentally scarred in vain. But it's wrong, and it's all George W Bush's fault.
I'm sorry if this comes off as insensitive to our troops, I do admire their bravery, but not their reason for fighting this war. We are all people, and I can't stand behind someone strictly because they're american, or because they are putting their life on the line to defend something. We have starving children right here in america, and we don't have the same amount of people defending their livelyhood. I guess it's just easier to enlist because they schedule your life for you.
When I went to high school the recruits never showed how bad Iraq's democracy was, they showed cool high tech equipment and scolarship programs. You should'nt have to trick people into doing the right thing. And if we didn't have such debt, we would'nt need to serve to pay for colledge.

xKillmatic wrote:

I just watched that youtube link, I must have missed it earlier. I think that is propaganda at it's finest, and a cheap way to try to pull heart strings. Calling it disrespectful to say the war was/is a mistake, is strictly the opinion of one person justifying their decision to enlist, and standing behind a bad decision by the president so he does'nt look like a puppet that went to war for no reason.
Going to war was a terrible decision, and for that guy to defend it with some ridiculous notion that we waged war to create democracy in Iraq is bogus. We went to war because of Bush's hidden agenda, and I guarantee you he doesn't give a flaming fu*k about democracy in Iraq. It's just an excuse to hide the fact that it was a bad decision.
I have respect for all people that give/risk their lives to defend a belief that they find is doing good for society, but I don't feel all of our troops should be treated as some revolutionaries fighting for good, so long as innocent Iraqi's are being tortured and killed. I've heard many stories of how soldiers blast rock and roll, and chant about killing before they go to war to pump themselves up. Now their goal should not be to kill, and get pumped up.
I watched a documentary about a group of soldiers complaining how bored they were, and how they wished there was more action. They were detaining innocent people, throwing them in the back of a truck and drove for hours to process them, because they were looking for one person of interest believed to be in the area. They took anyone over 15, and some were fathers they took at gunpoint infront of their children, forced them to their knees, and physically tossed them into the back of a truck. It turned out they were miles off target and released everybody, they felt no sorrow for doing that to innocent people, and were angry they were'nt able to "kill any bad guys".
I can't support the war, and I can't even support our troops as a whole. I really don't care what type of backlash this gets, because I know that the screening proccess is not srict enough to say that all of our troops are good people. I was playing Halo with some kids in Iraq that were troops, and they talked about shooting people's heads off in the game, and had no sense of maturity, especially to make the decision who lives and dies.
Not to mention the 10billion$ a month that we waste just to blow things up, and rebuild them, taking credit for somehow building up their countries democracy. It's a shame to even pretend we're doing good, when we don't have anybody stopping the genicide in Darfur, and it took forever to help Katrina victims. We're not specialized to help, we're trained to kill, and that's about it. We could afford so much food, shelter, and medicine for the price of tanks, missiles, and machine guns.
If I was sent to war I would probably try to defend going as well, because noone wants to die or be mentally scarred in vain. But it's wrong, and it's all George W Bush's fault.
I'm sorry if this comes off as insensitive to our troops, I do admire their bravery, but not their reason for fighting this war. We are all people, and I can't stand behind someone strictly because they're american, or because they are putting their life on the line to defend something. We have starving children right here in america, and we don't have the same amount of people defending their livelyhood. I guess it's just easier to enlist because they schedule your life for you.
When I went to high school the recruits never showed how bad Iraq's democracy was, they showed cool high tech equipment and scolarship programs. You should'nt have to trick people into doing the right thing. And if we didn't have such debt, we would'nt need to serve to pay for colledge.

Great post!!!!!

Did you see the HBO/Showtime special 'Profiting off the War'. Very good program which tells all on why we are in a so called war.

First of all, almost everything you said is propaganda. Kettle calling the pot black. Second of all, what would you do if you were sent overseas, staring death in the eye every god damn step you take? Would you try to keep a sense of humor? How about psyche yourself up so you don’t shit your pants? Troops do not make the decision who lives or dies most of the time. They decide if whether or not to give themselves a chance to live, it’s kill-or-be-killed.

“I guess it's just easier to enlist because they schedule your life for you.”

What the fuck are you talking about? It’s easier to make it through boot camp, be away from friends and family, and go fight a war, than it is to work at a soup kitchen? No offense, just a stupid comment.

Obama says countries do not pose a threat because they are smaller than us, or because their government spends less on the military. Are you kidding me? There are other groups of people spending money to get weapons, not just the government. “We need to open talks with these people.” Lets just have a one-on-one meeting with the leader of Iran, that will send a good message to the world. That shows support, no matter what he says going into it. I guess he thinks talking this time will work out the same way the Berlin Wall was brought down…by talking to Gorbachev. What a joke.

So, with all this talk about war, lets switch it to another HUGE issue, taxes.

Obama wants to raise Capital Gains tax by 15%-28%. When you increase this tax, government revenues actually go DOWN, defeating the purpose of the tax in the first place. We are in a HUUUUGE housing crisis and he wants people to pay MORE to sell their home? No thanks.

Why does he even talk about a Dividend Tax right now, the stock market is still in the shitter, that is just an issue he brought up to try and persuade voters.

Estate Tax – this is a big one for me. Rich people have big properties, large houses, correct? They also employ many people to keep up on maintenance, or cooking, or cleaning, or landscaping. They give people jobs on these huge estates. Tax them, that is fine, there just might be some unemployed cooks and maids in the future. Way to help out the middle/lower classes. But what about farmers or ranchers? They have HUGE, multi-million dollar properties on thousands of acres. They aren’t “millionaires,” far from it, but there property is worth millions. If they had to pay an Estate Tax, many would not be able to continue running their farm/ranch. They do not make enough money as is, they will not survive with this tax.

So, lets tax the rich then. One problem. The rich people in the world can and do pay accountants and bookkeepers to make it appear as if they don’t have or make as much as they really do. This keeps their taxes down. Middle/Lower class people can’t afford this, therefore end up paying a higher percentage tax then the upper class. Once again, doesn’t help the people he is saying he wants to help.

His Universal Healthcare plan would significantly raise taxes for everyone. Medicine and Health Care are crucial, but not as much as promoting a healthy lifestyle to prevent diseases and obesity. We need to be taxing sugars, flours, trans fats, and fast foods, and not allowing fast food in our schools.

With Obama’s suggested taxes, he wants to prevent people from retiring or ever becoming wealthy. How can you retire or become wealthy if you can’t ever sell a house without getting taxed, you can never invest in stocks because you get taxed, and you can’t pass on anything to your kids because you get taxed? This tax plan stifles the economy which is not what we need right now. Isn’t the American Dream about the freedom to make the life that you want. If you want to be rich, you can work your tail off to get there. Obama is saying no you can’t.

NOBAMA!

Fine Paul NOBAMA for you, but you really lost your cool this time. I stated my opinion and you blasted it, which is unlike most of your mature ways to handle discussions. You got really anti-Obama because of my opinion about the war, which is ridiculous. Mcain is just like Bush, and if you want him then vote for him, that's your right.
As for the war though, WHY ARE WE THERE? It was a terrible decision, and it's obserred for any soldier to say it's to create democracy. It discredits their own honor, because if they were honest about why we went to war I would respect them more. If they said they disagree with going, but will defend their orders to go, I would understand. But we're not creating democracy, we're destroying and rebuilding just to show any form of progress, as an excuse.
I'm personally shocked how you would lash out like that, because you claim that you can handle discussions, and have proven you can. But this time you chose to take offense to my opinion, and then turned your frustration into an anti-Obama speech.
Mcain talks so much about how he was a POW, and yet he has done nothing for people suffering right here. Like somehow our troops are the only people who deserve funding, and they are the true sufferers for our freedom. What about abused women trapped in a relationship, children who are abused by their parents, police brutality, homelessness, genicide, etc.. Where is all of our brave support and government funding for that?
And as for you misconstruing my comment about how enlisting is a way to setup our lives for us. How am I wrong? How many people do you know that went to Katrina relief, or to fight genicide in Darfur, and how many are enlisted in the army? I'ts simply because of colledge scholarships, and lack of options. Because clearly the war is the last on the chart as far as helping for the good of our planet. This war is a distraction, and a setup. There are people in a room right now that are pissing there pants with joy, that there is a division between people who support/don't the war. Because the talks have come completely off of the "weapons of mass destruction" theory.
As For your tax cut conspiracy, unless you make $250,000+ a year, Obama will give you a tax break. I think NOBAMA is also an unfair attack, because I'm PROBAMA. All Mcain supporters do is bash Obama, because they can't say a single good thing about Mcain. And Palin's on the ticket too, so why do you think she'll be a good VP that can step in for a 72yr old in bad health.
We need to end this disaster of a war, and support our troops by bringing them home. We need to stop shelling out billions of dollars to fund a war that should'nt exist. And if you decide to vote Mcain because of some disagreement about the war go for it, I respect your right to choose who you think will be a better leader.
Nothing against you Paul, I like you a whole lot as a person, but this is just a ridiculous debate. I just shared my thoughts and never got personal, or misquoted you to attack your opinion. All I hear from Mcain supporters is anti-Obama, and it's not enough to win the election. Obama WILL be our next president, because it's our last hope. I have a hard time seeing people say "what if we had voted Mcain". And if we elect Mcain I know I'll hear the "what if's".
This is a crucial election, and I think the war should'nt divide us, it should unite us. I was simply sharing my opinion, and I have a tremendous respect for most of our troops. But I will not waver in my feelings about this war, and it's not because I like to have disagreements. It's because there are so many problems in this world, SO SO MANY. And to be spending so much time, money, and resources on this one thing is absolutely crazy to me.
Again Paul, I don't want a back and forth between you and I. I think you are a great person, and you are a true reflection of how we should act as people. You take time to think out your ideas, and never fill your posts with petty garbage. I can tell I touched a sensitive subject, but I mean NO disrespect to your opinion. I may have come across as insensitive to our troops, but I am just very adimant about the war and similair crisis in the world. I think Obama will be an excellent leader, and I say that with pride. I don't even want to think about a Mcain administration, and Palin does'nt even have a clue. I hope you vote Obama, but either way I repect your opinion, and knowledgable responses.
*edit again*
I am in no way a blind Obama supporter, I have never cared for politics, and have done more to learn about Obama than I have ever even thought I would. If I sound like a blind follower, it's because I am so for Obama, that the prospect of Mcain makes me crazy.
I like Obama's realness, and charismatic leadership. I love his passion for the lesser forunate, and fixing home before we go to war. I've known about Obama befor I knew he was even think about running, and I admired his brilliance. And now that he is running, I can't believe that there's a competition with Mcain.

It wasn't my intent to attack you, although I realize after rereading the first two paragraphs I see it can be taken that way. This thread was made about the presidential debate, not the war, so I thought we could debate other things that have a HUGE effect on the election, besides war. Like it or not, we are at war right now. Nothing you and I can do about it. It doesn't matter if it was a good decision or bad decision to go to war, it is over and done with. We are at war. I wasn't trying to come up with an anti-obama speach, I was pointing out things from his campaign that I do not agree with, and problems I see with it. Example: I work in the housing industry, and I would like to get into building a house or two a year in the future. That is less of an option with Obama because of a 15-28% raise on Capital Gains Tax. That DIRECTLY effects me. I am not rich, I do not make 6 figures, I am trying to make it for myself as a 24 year old single man. I have said in the past that I am unsure on how I am voting. I am not a blind McCain supporter, nor do I fully support Obama. Truth is, I am still forming my opinion on who I think will best run the country. I do not trust Obama. He says he wants to run the country like Clinton, but hasn't shown me that he understands economics well enough to think of where to start. I have a 401k and stocks, I don't want that taxed more than it already is. I haven't heard either canidate say they are against supporting our people here in our country. I don't think Obamas way of doing it is necessarily the best way. My step-brother is in the military. As long as I have known him, since he was a little kid, he dreamed of serving our country. I made fun of him for it plenty, but I still respect the hell out of him for it. He didn't go for money, or scholarships, he went for the love of his country. Same with my dad, uncle, and grandfather. They recieved no scholarships.

Just for the record I didn't lose my cool when writing that. I wasn't trying to degrade you, or offend you. I think we all need to consider this from different perspectives. You seem like a blind follower of Obama, not that there is anything wrong with standing up for what you believe in. I know I appear as a blind follower of MCCain. I just think there are issues he has that does not make me very confident in Obama. The NOBAMA was kind of a joke, I guess it wasn't clear. I appologize.

Just remember, war is not the ONLY issue with this presidential election. Taxes are a huge issue, and everyone needs to at least consider how both presidents would better/worsen our lives.

If I had my way.........





VOTE PEROT!!!

I edited to add quite a bit more, and did'nt want it to get lost. It was on the previous page, if you care.

I don't have the same faith in him. I honestly think a lot of that passion is fake and he says what people want to hear. My personal opinion.

xKillmatic wrote:

*edit again*
I am in no way a blind Obama supporter, I have never cared for politics, and have done more to learn about Obama than I have ever even thought I would. If I sound like a blind follower, it's because I am so for Obama, that the prospect of Mcain makes me crazy.
I like Obama's realness, and charismatic leadership. I love his passion for the lesser forunate, and fixing home before we go to war. I've known about Obama befor I knew he was even think about running, and I admired his brilliance. And now that he is running, I can't believe that there's a competition with Mcain.

PaulZweber wrote:

I don't have the same faith in him. I honestly think a lot of that passion is fake and he says what people want to hear. My personal opinion.

Ya, but in that case it's a double edge sword. Would you rather he said things that repulse the general public?. Maybe his ideas appear to be too "unreal" for your taste, but Barack Obama can't help that. He knows he's going to get hate for his stance on the war, just as Martin Luther King knew he would get hate from putting his voice out their. Maybe he does'nt speak to the average "War mongering youth", but that's a pro, not a con. I know it sounds brutal to say we're in Iraq for no reason, but the truth can be brutal. Also, if we're so conscious of government spending, than explain to me how spending billions of dollars every month will further our freedom and democracy?. I for one am not going to hold my tongue just to appear sensitive to those who lose their lives in this war. I do know what looking death in the face is like, and I've done it with zero help from the United States goverment. I'm not saying what I'm about to say for any pity, or sympathy, just to inform you that soldiers don't die for my sake. I have a genetic muscle disease that's put me through some terrible situations. I had a back surgery when I was 13, and I was told to my face that I had a 50/50 chance of survival. How do you deal with that at such a young age?. I was also supposed to be hospitalized for at least a month if I lived, and was given little hope of breathing without permanent ventilary support, let alone the iminent risk of being paralyzed. No one sent me a goverment issued hero to save my ass. Luckily for me I live a very normal life, and had the best possible outcome imaginable. I can walk fine, and live free, but you don't see me staring down a camera asking for Barack Obama to send a few more pennies my way, so I damn well don't care about some idiot who blows their leg off and then wants the government to pay for their disability or pay for a few more tanks to keep their cause alive. FUCK THAT!. I have to live off of 600$ a month, while some veteran gets 1200$+ a month. Thats a definite injustice, and not because I want that money, but because they have a choice to wisen up to the war their fighting. Just cause I don't fight Bush's war, I'm supposed to suffer like everyone else AND try and keep my mouth shut about it?. Definitely not!. Less we forget that we as a nation still don't stress equality and justice above war and money. We're the richest, greediest nation known to man and we think we can just flex at any country we want. What?; We have pentium 4 processors so now that makes US superior?. There is no law to prevent rich ass Joe Shmoe from needlessly burning our Texas Tea on his 4x4 just so he can appear patriotic, and their is certainly no law to make us think before we act. If I didn't know how truly evil most americans are, I may actually believe we're fighting for something honest, but I'm not putting any faith into another scraggly old republican who wants to suck every "you know what", of every private ryan known to man. Point blank, John McCain is fake, old, stupid, senial, ignorant, and evil. Anyone who can find more good in him than Obama is sorely naive. I've watched as many speeches as I can find, and am going to try my hardest to truly inform all that are willing that Barack Obama is the right choice for president. Again, this may just fall on deaf ears, but it just fuels me when people criticize Barack Obama. There is no truth to saying Barack Obama is anything less than genuine, and it is my AMERICAN duty to express MY truth, and THE truth, regardless of appearing rantish. This presidential race is too important to ignore, just because we have some notion that Obamas just mugging for personal gain. It's just not true, and we as a society should be more informed, and should know more than that!. NOBAMA is pure hatred, and it has no business in politicing. Again, Paul, I really respect you a whole lot, but I would have this stance on anyone who said this stuff, including my own flesh and blood. "The biggest threat to truth is ignorance!."

While I don't agree with your stance, I respect it, and more so, I respect your right to do so. That didn't come without a price. Not everyone wanted to have a Revolutionary War, Civil War, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf...ect. We live in a great country and I am proud to be here, with all our flaws. I thought about saying the typical "If you hate it so much, get out!" but you have every right to your opinion, whether I agree or not.

We can disagree on who we think would run the country better, but honestly, who knows? We aren't psychic, we can't see in the future, so we don't know. We all put faith in who we believe in, who we relate to, who we trust. Just because I don't trust in or see the same qualities doesn't mean I am ignorant or naive. I am entitled to my opinion and beliefs, just as you are. Now you are the one trying to insult and offend

Just for the record, to compare Obama to MLK already is pretty rediculous. I have no problem saying MLK is one of the greatest people ever, Obama isn't on that level yet. If he can follow through on his promises IF he wins the election, then he will be a great president. I don't know if he can follow through though...

I don't want you to get upset over this. It is a good back and forth exchange of opinions, nothing more. I am not trying to convert anyone, just showing reasons I don't believe in Barak. No offense meant, no hard feelings needed.

Take it out on me in Madden!

PaulZweber wrote:

While I don't agree with your stance, I respect it, and more so, I respect your right to do so. That didn't come without a price. Not everyone wanted to have a Revolutionary War, Civil War, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf...ect. We live in a great country and I am proud to be here, with all our flaws. I thought about saying the typical "If you hate it so much, get out!" but you have every right to your opinion, whether I agree or not.

We can disagree on who we think would run the country better, but honestly, who knows? We aren't psychic, we can't see in the future, so we don't know. We all put faith in who we believe in, who we relate to, who we trust. Just because I don't trust in or see the same qualities doesn't mean I am ignorant or naive. I am entitled to my opinion and beliefs, just as you are. Now you are the one trying to insult and offend

Just for the record, to compare Obama to MLK already is pretty rediculous. I have no problem saying MLK is one of the greatest people ever, Obama isn't on that level yet. If he can follow through on his promises IF he wins the election, then he will be a great president. I don't know if he can follow through though...

I don't want you to get upset over this. It is a good back and forth exchange of opinions, nothing more. I am not trying to convert anyone, just showing reasons I don't believe in Barak. No offense meant, no hard feelings needed.

Take it out on me in Madden!

Paul, I am sorry if I offended you. I just have the deepest fear that McCain will win, and for me that spells hell on earth. I know your entitled to your opinon, and believe me, I do respect it. I don't want to create any problems, and I appreciate your constant ability to remain open minded. I just think that if McCain wins than everyone who can't defend themselves will be at the mercy of an old and ignorant man, that's all. I do have faith that it will be OK, but I post political views on other sites lately, and the people who respond are not so heart-felt as you are. Many people like to lie to spread their views, and sometimes I just lose my cool. My war comments were just meant to say that even though I don't physically fight for my "freedom", I feel I fight in a much more powerful way. I know I get carried away, but November 4th is almost here, and I'm hearing over-whelming back-lash at Obama, that I feel is unfair. Yes, maybe Obama is not MLK, but he does try. McCain does'nt care about me, and I know Barack Obama does. I think, seeing as how I love african-american culture, and my aunt is an african-american, I feel pressure to say stuff, because I've heard so many things that, to me, come from an overall racist society. I just wish I could feel like people were only seeing views, and not color, but I think people aren't yet up to the level they need to be. There has been literally 1,000 times when I hear people use the "N" word on XBOX live, and all I'm left thinking is "Wow, those people are real people, and will play a very real part in society". I always speak out when I hear it, but it just stresses me, because I have never heard, in the thousand times I've heard the "N" word, another white person say "thats wrong". I think thats strongly reflective of society, and that pretty much kills me. How long will it be until we have zero ignorance, and zero racism?. It just seems like the generations continue, and people never change. I know your far from ignorant, and are a very intelligent person. Thats why I leave such long responses to you, because I know you are a good enough person to really listen, even if you don't agree. Please, no offense with what I said, I just though I had to say it, thats all!. By the way, I finally have a gold membership, and my brother bought a mic, so I'm fair game at Madden whenever you are. Just pick the time, and I'll pick the score!.

McCain friggin rocks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMPNWT6NxMY

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/16/obama-ads-not-just-in-burnout-paradise/

Didn't OBAMA yesterday say that the parents should take the video games, tv away from their children and get back to education yet he puts himself in all kinds of video games like NBA, Burnout, Madden and a couple others. The reason I am probably gonna vote for McCain is I believe Obama just says what people want to hear so he can get into office. I do love his Health Care Plan but what I got from the debate when I was watching was when he would explain everything else and McCain would come back at him I just always thought I saw obama's body language change once McCain said what Obama will actually do. I just don't trust obama yet, to contradict myself I do believe if he wins we wont be in bad shape, but I still like McCain myself.

Just my opinion about his body language but to me it just seemed like when he was talking he had great body language most of the time but then when McCain came back and said what Obama will really do I just thought it looked like Obama's body language changed to oh shit he is on to me. I might not know what i'm talking about but it's just my opinion on what happened last night

TheTrueJ0KER wrote:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/16/obama-ads-not-just-in-burnout-paradise/

Didn't OBAMA yesterday say that the parents should take the video games, tv away from their children and get back to education yet he puts himself in all kinds of video games like NBA, Burnout, Madden and a couple others. The reason I am probably gonna vote for McCain is I believe Obama just says what people want to hear so he can get into office. I do love his Health Care Plan but what I got from the debate when I was watching was when he would explain everything else and McCain would come back at him I just always thought I saw obama's body language change once McCain said what Obama will actually do. I just don't trust obama yet, to contradict myself I do believe if he wins we wont be in bad shape, but I still like McCain myself.
Just my opinion about his body language but to me it just seemed like when he was talking he had great body language most of the time but then when McCain came back and said what Obama will really do I just thought it looked like Obama's body language changed to oh shit he is on to me. I might not know what i'm talking about but it's just my opinion on what happened last night

I don't think Obama wants to outlaw video games, and he sure won't put any policies in place for parents to be forced to implement. All he was saying, was that they should be handled in moderation. We do have the most monetarily funded schools in the whole world, so I think that when he was talking about turning off the TV, he was meaning that education is lacking due to the excess in Video Games and TV shows. It's no secret that young children are spending 10x the amount of time on their playstations, than they are playing real spotrs, or doing their schoolwork. I'm was very guilty of this myself, and still am to an extent, but their is a huge problem with education, and it will lead to a very confused nation in the not so distant future, thats all. As for body language, I think it's more that McCain was either bringing up very old and shaky bills, or he was heavily embelishing some of Obama's policies. Barack Obama has a full web-site, barackobama.com, where he lists all of his future policies, and yet McCain was making up some of them on the fly. Barack Obama is dead on in the healthcare dept., in my opinion, because I think all businesses should be required to, and financed, for health care for their employees. Under McCains bill, healthcare would be under the discretion of the employer, and what employer is going to pay for healthcare for their employees when they don't have to. You could say, "well employees do want healthcare for their employees anyway, because if their workers are sick than they don't have anyone to help run their businesses.", but with the job crisis in America today, whats to stop a small business owner from not purchasing health care for their employees, and just replacing them with other workers when they become too injured, or ill, to work. I think their are alot of small business owners who would deny health care for their workers, just because of the cost, and who would just save the money by getting rid of sick workers, or elderly, workers and replace them with new ones. There are so many people who are un-employed, thaty finding workers should be no problem with todays economy the way it is. Again, just my opinion, and I love how you have been watching the debates with only partial interest in either candidate. I really respect it, and I would love to here your take on what I just posted!.

Why would he bring video games up at all, especially not in support, when he has put his ads in so many? He wants people that play games to vote for him, but play games less. To be honest, I play more video games now than I ever did as a kid. I was ALWAYS outside, playing bball, soccer, tag, hide and seek, baseball, football, building forts, skateboarding, rollerblading, swimming, ect. Not gonna lie, Obama did look a bit rattled at times. If someone is a good employee, they aren't going to replace them because they are sick. Smart, hard workers are too hard to find. There are small, brainless jobs where that does happen, but if that is happening switch career paths. If companies have to pay health care, this could possibly have a negative effect on people with large families. If a company has to pay the healthcare of employees and family, why would they pay more for a guy with 5 kids vs a single guy?

x Ricky87 x wrote:

I don't think Obama wants to outlaw video games, and he sure won't put any policies in place for parents to be forced to implement. All he was saying, was that they should be handled in moderation. We do have the most monetarily funded schools in the whole world, so I think that when he was talking about turning off the TV, he was meaning that education is lacking due to the excess in Video Games and TV shows. It's no secret that young children are spending 10x the amount of time on their playstations, than they are playing real spotrs, or doing their schoolwork. I'm was very guilty of this myself, and still am to an extent, but their is a huge problem with education, and it will lead to a very confused nation in the not so distant future, thats all. As for body language, I think it's more that McCain was either bringing up very old and shaky bills, or he was heavily embelishing some of Obama's policies. Barack Obama has a full web-site, barackobama.com, where he lists all of his future policies, and yet McCain was making up some of them on the fly. Barack Obama is dead on in the healthcare dept., in my opinion, because I think all businesses should be required to, and financed, for health care for their employees. Under McCains bill, healthcare would be under the discretion of the employer, and what employer is going to pay for healthcare for their employees when they don't have to. You could say, "well employees do want healthcare for their employees anyway, because if their workers are sick than they don't have anyone to help run their businesses.", but with the job crisis in America today, whats to stop a small business owner from not purchasing health care for their employees, and just replacing them with other workers when they become too injured, or ill, to work. I think their are alot of small business owners who would deny health care for their workers, just because of the cost, and who would just save the money by getting rid of sick workers, or elderly, workers and replace them with new ones. There are so many people who are un-employed, thaty finding workers should be no problem with todays economy the way it is. Again, just my opinion, and I love how you have been watching the debates with only partial interest in either candidate. I really respect it, and I would love to here your take on what I just posted!.

Who watched the last debate?
I thought they both did well, but of course I agreed more with Obama. I thought Mcain did very well to start, but got more bitter towards the end. I think some people see it as determination, but I see it as unneccessary attacks. I think Obama did a great job taking it in stride and keeping his eyes on the prize. It would be a bad time for him to join in with all of the rhetoric.
Supposedly Obama has a great chance of winning based on the pollls, he would have 277 electoral votes vs Mcain's 174 if the election was held today. Although I find polls hard to believe seeing I've never been polled, so how can I trust the poll is accurate.
But it does mean that atleast Obama is getting overwhelming support. 80% of the people polled thought Mcain ran a more negative campaign, and were turned off by his eye rolling and lack of eye contact.
Regardless I think this will be a whole lot closer than "analysts" are predicting. I really hope Obama wins but it's far from in the bag. I think he has a good chance if he can just ride it out, not get personal, and continue to influence undecided voters in more republican states.
Also, did anybody see the "roast" between Mcain and Obama?
It was some forum they held where Obama and Mcain were cracking jokes at one another. I really respected both parties, it was great they were able to set aside the campaign and laugh at some ridiculous judgements people place on them. If you were unable to watch it you can find it on youtube, though I'm not sure what the title is. It was at the very least funny. It probably won't change anybodies vote, but it might make you think differently of both candidates.